Deified Man or God?

John…


God willing - insha-allah.

The problem is in content-focus rather than Context-focus.  By this, I mean that people mire themselves in the details (content) at the expense of retaining focus on that which should truly be the focus of worship - God / Divinity (Context).

Content-focus, then, when taken too far, can manifest in scriptural idolatry, judgement of others based on understanding of guidelines / laws in the content or interpretations thereof, and too much focus on the dogmatic routine or exclusion of others based on difference. 

Context-focus retains God / Divinity as the center of faith and spirituality and sees details as secondary to that which is the source of Grace.  When details become secondary, it is recognized that the best way to serve is through the spirit of the Faith, which is compassion, love, forgiveness, humility and surrender of individual will to Divine Will - these are the core spirit of all major world religions, the common ground which is so often lost by the focus on detail and difference which only brings conflict over detail and difference.

Consciousness will evolve.


Tim

A topic like this will stimulate a lot of discussion.  I have ran in and out of religion for a long time and have come to the realization that one's perception of God is not as important as one's manifestation of the character of God.  That is, if one's god portrays Love then in the most simple way Love.  If one states that God is Just and Kind, then in the most uncomplicated way practice being just and kind to others.  However, there are those who believe themselves to be God and perform acts of justice in the name of God.  That gets touchy, but we see this today.  My hope and prayer is that individual by individual, we will stop comparing our concept of God and practice attributes of God.

I think that the persuit of peace is of the utmost importance, and therefore i applaud your energy in this direction.

However, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that “oneness may be attained by a common belief in God.”  From where I sit, I can see that most of the major players in the most prominent current armed and economic hostilities around the world are in fact members of the religions that believe in God, that is, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.  At the same time, many people who do not believe in God, including atheists and Bhuddists, who believe in no gods, as well as Hindus and modern Pagans, who believe in many Gods and Goddesses, have managed to work around armed conflict.

Hundreds of exceptions on both sides can be found, and it is not my goal to start an argument about whether those who believe in God are less likely to achieve global oneness.  It is merely my intention to point out that there is little supporting eveidence for the idea that a belief in God leads to world peace or unity.  (Crusades? Inquisition? Pat Robertson?)

my $.02…

(from someone who works for unity, and who worships the Divine in many forms)
)O(  Surya Chandra

Joy:

That is a really insightful and simple way to put things.  Thank you!  I have a feeling i will be reminding myself of your thought, and relating it to others, for years to come.  Maybe the rest of my life.

Now I will muse over what i see as the essential qualities of God and Goddess, and how to manifest those in my demeanor and character.  Heh… being a pan-polytheist, I just may become a bit MPD!  Just kidding  =^)

)O( Surya Chandra

Surya…

It sounds a bit cynical to believe that a person of Jewish, Christian or Muslim faith can not and will not seek unity with others.

“But, that's not the same… now you're only talking about one person, Tim, not the majority,” you may say.  But, then, if it's possible for one to be like that, you have to admit that it's possible for ALL to be like that, no matter how likely it is that all WILL be like that or not.  (We're talking possibility, not likelihood and not current events in this illustration)

And, if you're willing to admit that it's conceivable for even one person of those faiths to accept unity with others and that if one can do it all CAN, even if unlikely that they WILL, then it has to be admitted that it's not the religion, it's the poor spin put on the religion through accentuation of differences… ie. content focus, detail focus.

I've met Christians who were true Christians and very welcoming and open to others of all faiths.  I've also met those Christians that weren't.  I've also met atheists and neo-Pagans that would prefer to never share the same air as a Christian, Jew or Muslim, which means that atheists and neo-Pagans are also possibly susceptable to religious “chips” on their shoulders… but, then that's not atheism or neo-Paganism, it's the choce of the individual.

It's not the religions, in any religion's case, it's what's done with the religion by the hands of man.  To unite, common grounds should be sought and fingers should be averted, not pointed.  One may say that to point fingers of blame at religions for attrocities, as your post does, instead of recognizing that it's the men involved… the egos, not the religion, not the God… is not condusive to unity any more than the acts pointed out.  We should divorce the acts of man from the acts of God or religion.

Perhaps it would be healthier to recognize that all religions intend good and all religions are a path up the same mountain whether the travelers on these paths agree or not.

Consciousness will evolve as we all travel those paths.



Tim

It matters not whether man is defied or God, for all forms of defication are based on a belief that does not depict the true meaning of worship.  To worship as men of religion do, regardless of the religion,  means no man can see God and live.  But true worship does not biind itself to doctrines, and by-laws which restrict thought, mind, consciousness, and soul to principles of human intellectual interpretations.  True worship means no man can see God and die.  This means God cannot be deified, God can only be lived.  This is why Jesus could say “if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.”  And this is why the Apostle Paul could say: “I found an altar with this inscription ' TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.  Whom, therefore, ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.”

To deify man or God is a breakage of the law.  And man establish the law, but truth and mercy comes by grace.

There is never a need for Spirit to wait.  This means evolution is a by-product of the belief that say God is not whole, perfect, complete, and pure right now.

jufa

You are never alone!!!

Of course!
The personification of 'God' is religion and the conceptualization of 'God' is spiritualiy.

I don't even care if the God I pray to is some seperate entity out there or just the wiser, stronger me I'm trying to tap into. I pray and it gives me strength. I love and it gives me peace. I don't care who God is.

If not directly, then indirectly this may have a bearing on this discussion. I hope it stimulates either mental activity or thought.
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Ian.

God!!
John, one religion. Sounds wonderful.

But we still are not in unision of god is  a form of universal consciousness or not. I am very oper about that. I personal need more experience to come to a conclusion.

The bond between us in my mind, is our human identity, one race, one blood, the equality of men and women, in the equality of life, in peace with the environment, and free to be a part of any religion or belief they wish, equality is spiritual freedom. Peace is human freedom, the liberation of human identity, one race, one world, many aspects of the same identity living in harmony. Good religion is peaceful religion. Good people are morally aware and equal in peace.

Pan

Hi Pan, The bond between us is our spiritual identity and what cements that bond is our awareness of that identity.
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Hi Riet,
With reference to your comment, “But we still are not in unison if god is  a form of universal consciousness or not. I am very open about that. I personally need more experience to come to a conclusion.”  it is all explained in my book and in my blog. Feel free to explore these if you so wish.
:-)

Time is the universal commodity of awareness - non are born aware, awareness in the human dimension is a journey of appreciation and socially humans have to educate children to appreciate the distinction between human and animal behavior, which, again is not a product of birth, but, a response to social surroundings and the perception of opportunity to expectation throughout development, approached from the prerequisite of love or abuse in child development, where necessary focus is patchy to say the least. It's a universal template of unity to foster progressive regeneration for national and global invalidation of division, where division generates egotistical nations, mistrust and global instability, when basically everyone is in need of utilitarian values of exchange to harmonize human activity and in that scenario,people naturally find their own road to spiritual awareness or accept all roads are one, in terms of human equality.

I just think the World is evolving towards peace, out of necessity…history is way to selfish and dominated by human values, which, ultimately lead to global weakness and inequality…no one's brain is less significant than another, diverse spiritually is a strength, most certainly a test  in  our  ability  to  represent  the spiritual  world  of value,  to  the  many  people  who  have  no  access  in  the world  around  them. Humanity  is  an awesome  gift  of  unlimited  potential  to exceed  expectation  in  the face  of adversity  and  forge  peace  to guarantee  strength and  welfare  of  generations  of  common  children, trapped  by  their  peers  into  predictable lives of  cause  and  effect  based  on  a  pyramid structure of vast inequality.

I don't care where anyone comes from, what their religion  is,  the multicultural, multi faithed fusion in my own country is beautiful to behold and be part of, we are blessed as a nation to have so much historical experience to draw on, it's a privilege…they  all  have  equal  potential  to be  components  of  justice in  a  democratic  world,  because, this world is home to many more species, dimensions and planes of interaction than the disorganization in our  own ranks  allows appreciation of…this is part of awareness, growth and humility…human  civilization  as  a  duty  of  care  to  all  components  in  the  universal  integrity  of life  and  planet  as a single object internalized, in a vast sea where objects are common and all possibilities extend beyond the limits of knowledge contained on the surface of Earth…unity will secure an insurance policy beyond the value of any written contract, love and life can not be insured, only experienced…insurance is a product of division and control…that can only be replaced by spirituality and human values of strength, there are many modifications to make and together they will come to fruition much quicker.

Technologically we have gone to far in division, many threats now exist beyond anyone's control ,without change, rejuvenation, progress and human integrity are impeded, the most significant resource on the  planet  is  human  love, a formidable dynamic in any zone we exist upon, in time…sorry, I'm rambling and some ideas in-terms of war and peace, are best unsaid…end.